Members comments:

 =  Summer Holiday
John Willy Kopperud
[01.Jul.07 15:25]
Since I'm going away for a while I may not be able to give responses or write comments until approximately 13.July

Love from Willy

 =  willy
[03.Jul.07 22:01]
It's not the absence of God. But the absence of man. If you ask me if I believe in God, then I'll answer : Sometimes I do.
But I definitely fail when it comes to believing in man. We are paradoxical creatures. Beautiful but dark. Sensitive but instinctive.
I don't see the point of Christianity because I simply can not see IT HAPPEN outside churches. They preach love and harmony but still millions of people are STARVING to death... Churches market Christ and the image of GOD. They give it form and meaning and then they "sell" it. it comes in different shapes... different products. It can help you sleep it can help you find meaning.. believe in the afterworld, have better sex with the mrs and so on. This is the lie. I wish they would stop that and really DO something. People no longer need to be lied to sleep. People need politicians to stop teaching us to kill eachother and our (already fucked up planet). Is the church aware of that? Are they aware of the fact that every 2 seconds a child dies of in Africa (famine.. disease and so on). My poem had nothing to do with God and eveything to do with GOD as a product of the church!

+ have a nice one!
ion amariutei
[03.Jul.07 17:03]
i think that atheism is a religion too. after all, to believe that the universe (or life) just came into being on their own is to believe in a miracle...
as an agnostic i don't have a problem with belief but i have one with "organized" belief. organized belief (or church or religion) is nothing more than a political party. it's "us" versus "them"
we should strive to be better (which is: avoid hurting others) not because of hope in a heavenly reward but because our lives could become a lot better right now.

thanks for the effort, Willy, as always it's been a pleasure going through a well balanced, thoughtful essay

 =  Well done, Willy and Dan, I agree with you both! Sydney
Sydney Krivenko
[05.Jul.07 14:51]
I agree with both of you, Dan and Willy. Religionis an organized madness, usually results in fanatism. But believing is mostly in believing in one´s own mind, intellect, experiences, listening to one´s own soul. I beleive in a force outside us, we are all differentpieces of one shining crystal, we experience both sides of the con, that´s why we are in a body on a planet. But what we experience in our mind, soul, with our other bodies and senses is mostly personal. We would like to share these experiences, at least I do, but often others cannot see through our eyes, hear through our ears...
leave them be, no use trying to convince them, but I suggest, if they are truly searching for a better meaning in their lives, I suggest they search in the direction of inside themselves through meditation.

 =  Response to Dan, Ion and Sydney
John Willy Kopperud
[15.Jul.07 21:24]

....That's really interesting, Dan, the way you characterize humans as sinister, quote " Beautiful but dark. Sensitive but instinctive." In my opinion that puts you intriguingly close to traditional Christian theology in your way of reflecting upon the issue. "Original sin" is the term that springs to mind. The churches offer a possibility for man to repent evil actions. I find it absolutely impossible to believe that noone , with an open and honest mind, after going to confession, or merely talking to a priest, should be able to better his/hers ways. In literature I regard Dostoevsky's "Raskolnikov" as a brilliant description of
a man who genuinely repents his beastly actions. You, as opposed to Dostoevsky, may seem to offer humanity no hope at all in this respect.

Also, there is no reason why genuine remorse should not be
a part of life for atheists, agnostics and a large number of
other philosophical and/or religious believers. Besides ; peace, love and understanding should not be scorned. The process of repentance is a possibility for men, since we are able to reflect upon our actions. In nature, in the animal kingdom, this is not an option. The only options are instinct,appetite, sex drive and quick reflexes. That is why
nature, on the whole, is a lot more relentless and cruel than civilization, in many places, is.

I think this, at least for the moment, must be my conclusion.

Ion, thank, you very much for your response. As you can see, my concern is both for people inside and outside organized religion.

Thanks to Sydney, as well. Yes, this is a question that concerns man as a spiritual being!

 =  From all of me to all of you
John Willy Kopperud
[14.Jul.07 17:48]
Dan and Sydney!

Thank you very much for respective responses. There is a good chance that I might take this topic one step further in yet another essay, since this is a most interesting exchange.



Thank you very much for your generous response!


 =  Romulus!
John Willy Kopperud
[16.Jul.07 11:28]

Since I'm referring tu your representation of traditional Christian belief above it would be most interesting to get
a response from you on the views in the essay and the comments.

Respectfully yours


 =  all the best
mark volohov
[07.Aug.07 14:08]
maybe you will find my essay as equally thought provoking as i find yours...

 =  alive...
Romulus Campan Maramuresanu
[07.Aug.07 14:09]
Don't give up on me Willy, I'll be back with some comment!

me, a tired donkey:-))

 =  answer...
Romulus Campan Maramuresanu
[08.Aug.07 16:39]

Although your short essay tackles the very surface of the problem of Evil, it is very far from reaching conclusions. I write this not as an editor only, but as a MTh+ThD candidate, deeply involved in the incredibly complex problem of Evil.
But the bottom-line is this, that the God of Love, allowed the first human couple to use for the first and last time their free will (because after it was bound by sin) in order to forsake Him. As previously the Earth has been given to men for dominion, God kept His delegation, this being why today mankind continuously harvests the outcome of this ongoing decision, perpetrated ever since by every human being.
God’s love is still shown in His general mercy, but ultimately in the Birth, Death and Resurrection of Jesus, His only begotten Son. He alone can break the bondages of sin, allowing men to get back to God. All this is not some myth my friend, but inspired and prophesied reality.

My best wishes.

 =  "Imagination and spirit is just as real for me as the physical phenomena" +
Bogdan G. Marin
[30.Apr.08 08:36]
The tragedy of the human being is that even though we search for perfection, or at least strive to become a near perfect society this means no wars, less famine, a more advanced medical system, a more advanced educational system, a more advanced technology, and so on. By doing so there would be a possibility, in the minds of the optimists… idealists and those who strive for the things I have enumerated - - to live in “a century of happiness”. In this century, though, poetry will fade and as well other forms of literature such as tragedy and drama. Logically also the ones who create art will fade as well. In general, poets are rebels, not in the destructive way, but rebels against their present society – to form it into a better one, to mend it. (Irenaeus believed that humanity is developing into perfection, as the world gets worse too) He took the individual form of evolution, at a micro level – that means “from your mistakes you learn and thus evolve” and put it at a macro level, humanity.
Is Heaven, Heaven?

Let us say that Heaven exists, we gain this knowledge through scientific means; though there is no possibility to gain this knowledge in this manner only through a spiritual guidance, love. Now let us ask ourselves: Is Heaven, Heaven? This question has not yet been answered. Why? Because if in Heaven is only goodness, and you have only one way and you cannot choose another because “another” does not exist then -free will- becomes –obsolete-. You have reached the perfect state of existence in Heaven though you have to forget about your -free will-. Know, if –free will- does not exist, God is goodness in himself, the beginning and the end; then how Lucifer rebelled against God? How could have Lucifer desired (will) to take control of Heaven, rule as a God, as God? If hate, and vanity did not exist? Then Heaven does not represent the abolition of free will and thus means that you can “rebel” in Heaven and thus restart the whole problem again – original sin. Then this means that Lucifer was not the first and will not be the last rebel against God.
Now I want to add another question: What if Heaven is in another dimension? There could be 10 or 11 dimensions, the M-theory

Willy, I have to agree with you on "Imagination and spirit, mine and others, is just as real for me as the physical phenomena described by natural sciences".

 =  Romulus Campan Maramuresanu
Bogdan G. Marin
[01.May.08 11:45]
Is this theory, if I may ask predestination?
"for the first and last time their free will (because after it was bound by sin) in order to forsake Him"
This means that souls exist, but are part of deterministic framework - you have no free will. Because God being omniscient and omnipotent predetermined the fate of the universe and man. Or at least our only free will is to choose or reject God.
"Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur"

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