Members comments:

= Humanism?
John Willy Kopperud
[28.Apr.08 23:42]

I am absolutely in favor of humanism. It does strike me, however, that this text is laden with utopism. In spite of being a leftist I'm utterly skeptical to utopian thinking.
Throughout history there has been too many ideaas "worth dying for."
As to the internal romanian affairs I admit to being an ignorant scandinavian and I will, of course, leave that discussion to romanian contributors.
= Mr. John Willy Kopperud,
Bogdan G. Marin
[29.Apr.08 10:10]
Mr. John Willy Kopperud,

"Throughout history there have been too many ideas "worth dying for.""

There have been many political theories that they were thought, "worth dying for", in reality, surely they were not. My principle is that all theories have certain elements in their structures that are useful, and practical - not utopist. I know that Bakunin once stated, in his essay "God and the State"; and quote:

""God being everything, the real world and man are nothing. God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave." While Satan is "the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds."

"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such

"Science is the compass of life; but it is not life itself.... What I preach then is, to a certain extent, the revolt of life against science, or rather against the government of science, not to destroy science - that would be high treason to humanity - but to remand it to its place so that it can never leave it again

Who is right, the idealists or the materialists? The question, once stated in this way, hesitation becomes impossible. Undoubtedly the idealists are wrong and the materialists right. Yes, facts are before ideas; yes, the ideal, as Proudhon said, is but a flower, whose root lies in the material conditions of existence. Yes, the whole history of humanity, intellectual and moral, political and social, is but a reflection of its economic history."

But! You cannot have "facts (are) before ideas", ideas come before facts; first you have to have a theory then put it in practice. A theory that is in concordance with the human nature! That is.

Even so, I warned you sir about the text being only a sketch:

"Because this is only a sketch, I will omit some details!"

Even so, I will continue to study politics and writing this manifesto, this book. I want to join a political party... or so I did, until I found out that you could unite all ideologies, surely certain aspects... and so maybe creating a new political thought. A better one? Many said throughout history that their idea is better then the others, as you have said it yourself, they thought their idea was better and the others as well about their own idea, so all were right from their particular point of view, but all were wrong nonetheless by rejecting, ignoring and by proclaiming their own thought more superior, better - almost holy; then the other thought, proclaimed by the others more superior, better - almost holy.
= Really it's perfection that I fear, because...
John Willy Kopperud
[29.Apr.08 02:13]
...perfection is against human nature. Perfection as illusion, on the other hand, is a lie I cherish!
Cheers from Willy
= my opinion - the same thoughts as Willy!
Marius Surleac
[29.Apr.08 10:44]
Bogdan I don't want to discourage you but I laid down my opinion on the “Political thoughts I” and I have pointed something that didn't sound good. It was just a comment and I understood you perfectly well for your joining in a political party, for your political education but here on agonia.net is more about literature (poetry, prose, essay, etc.). What about my own person I am not interested about political lessons so, as Willy said in his comment I choose to let the internal Romanian affairs beyond, 'cause I'm sick all day to hear on TV and Media about politics and rulers from the top of our country.
Cheers and have a nice day!

= -Perfectly- agree with you both
Bogdan G. Marin
[29.Apr.08 11:35]
"Perfection as illusion"

I agree 100%. Humans are not perfect, and they can never be. However, I have to add:

"Drastic reduction of taxes and abolishing special taxes of chosen products will result into a wave of consuming those certain products, and then by doing so, the production will increase as well as the state economy."

In addition, after doing so, after the economy will rise and as well, people will be "free" to buy (wage slavery "reduced") you will raise again the taxes and add special taxes, then in another year again reduction and abolition. (Doing this when you need - depending on the situation)

Yes! Marius, this site is "more about literature (poetry, prose, essay, etc.)" - though... it “is” and not “more”, it just “is”. Though saying “essay” this means any type of essay, you are not forced not to write a political essay. Moreover, yes, I do not force you do read politics. Moreover, yes again! On TV, all kinds of people come and yell!

Thank you, I will not post, as you said though my political thoughts on agonia.

(BTW: Mr. Kopperud, what is your yahoo address maybe we can talk more when you have time and send you some more fragments. What seems to utopian cross out and add something else. Anyway in this book I will add a moral philosophy as well and a theory, an idea that “forces” to not engage in war, to not attack freedom, to not give a martial law, and so on. A political philosophy that is like water)
= read again what I said and do not invoke something else...
Marius Surleac
[29.Apr.08 11:42]
Bogdan, if you'll read again the comment I've posted on your text you'll see that I did not ask you such a thing like "do not publish any political texts", what I said is that MY ONLY OPINION, that I PREFER NOT TO DISCUSS ABOUT POLITICS.
PAY ATTENTION TO THE WORDS AND SPEAK CARREFULLY WITHOUT MAKING DIFFERENT PRESUMPTIONS.

= ?
dan marius
[29.Apr.08 11:58]
and you would like to lead us because you love us ? or because you love power ? is it "humanism" or vanity ?

= Sorry/Somewhat funny
Bogdan G. Marin
[29.Apr.08 16:50]
Dan Marius - - no, I hope you know who Bakunin was as well as Proudhon, well I know that power can corrupt, so I emphasize on love and on knowledge. I am a citizen, I am a human and I know how hard it is for a person with low income and even medium income (though I am only 18 years old), anyway... no I do not love power and it is not vanity. It is somewhat funny even that you thought of this because what I am trying to do is create a political philosophy that cannot lead to the love for power but to the love for knowledge (politician philosophers – as Plato thought)! I do not think philosoher, and I know that philosophers must not in any way love power!
-
I am sorry Marius, yes you are right, but when you said: "I PREFER NOT TO DISCUSS ABOUT POLITICS" it sounded like that, I did not force you do discuss about this thought... sorry again though. Thank you.
= And
Bogdan G. Marin
[29.Apr.08 16:51]
I will not lead any; I will just write the book. Though I hate those who are in politics and then write that our country is in a worse state! So do they not love money, power? Money is Power. Just sit and yell? Even so, I do not love money and I do not want to become rich - even though it sounds weird, I do not. My family and the people whom I have talked to said that money is everything, but I do not say that, I say that knowledge and love is everything! To be good to the people, “Love thy neighbor as thy self” – Though I do not believe in God, I accept this.
= And, last thing
Bogdan G. Marin
[29.Apr.08 16:52]
I want Romania to become one of the many important countries of Europe, maybe even more important then France or Italy. I want my country, our country to be educated, hundreds of libraries, a special building where philosophers will meet – similar to Ancient Rome, conservatories, art, a new architecture - where is a possible, environmental law, and so on!

No anonymous comments allowed !
In order to post comments and texts
you must have an account and then LOGIN !

Go back !

= Humanism?	John Willy Kopperud [28.Apr.08 23:42]
I am absolutely in favor of humanism. It does strike me, however, that this text is laden with utopism. In spite of being a leftist I'm utterly skeptical to utopian thinking. Throughout history there has been too many ideaas "worth dying for." As to the internal romanian affairs I admit to being an ignorant scandinavian and I will, of course, leave that discussion to romanian contributors.

= Mr. John Willy Kopperud,	Bogdan G. Marin [29.Apr.08 10:10]
Mr. John Willy Kopperud, "Throughout history there have been too many ideas "worth dying for."" There have been many political theories that they were thought, "worth dying for", in reality, surely they were not. My principle is that all theories have certain elements in their structures that are useful, and practical - not utopist. I know that Bakunin once stated, in his essay "God and the State"; and quote: ""God being everything, the real world and man are nothing. God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave." While Satan is "the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds." "The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such "Science is the compass of life; but it is not life itself.... What I preach then is, to a certain extent, the revolt of life against science, or rather against the government of science, not to destroy science - that would be high treason to humanity - but to remand it to its place so that it can never leave it again Who is right, the idealists or the materialists? The question, once stated in this way, hesitation becomes impossible. Undoubtedly the idealists are wrong and the materialists right. Yes, facts are before ideas; yes, the ideal, as Proudhon said, is but a flower, whose root lies in the material conditions of existence. Yes, the whole history of humanity, intellectual and moral, political and social, is but a reflection of its economic history." But! You cannot have "facts (are) before ideas", ideas come before facts; first you have to have a theory then put it in practice. A theory that is in concordance with the human nature! That is. Even so, I warned you sir about the text being only a sketch: "Because this is only a sketch, I will omit some details!" Even so, I will continue to study politics and writing this manifesto, this book. I want to join a political party... or so I did, until I found out that you could unite all ideologies, surely certain aspects... and so maybe creating a new political thought. A better one? Many said throughout history that their idea is better then the others, as you have said it yourself, they thought their idea was better and the others as well about their own idea, so all were right from their particular point of view, but all were wrong nonetheless by rejecting, ignoring and by proclaiming their own thought more superior, better - almost holy; then the other thought, proclaimed by the others more superior, better - almost holy.

= Really it's perfection that I fear, because...	John Willy Kopperud [29.Apr.08 02:13]
...perfection is against human nature. Perfection as illusion, on the other hand, is a lie I cherish! Cheers from Willy

= my opinion - the same thoughts as Willy!	Marius Surleac [29.Apr.08 10:44]
Bogdan I don't want to discourage you but I laid down my opinion on the “Political thoughts I” and I have pointed something that didn't sound good. It was just a comment and I understood you perfectly well for your joining in a political party, for your political education but here on agonia.net is more about literature (poetry, prose, essay, etc.). What about my own person I am not interested about political lessons so, as Willy said in his comment I choose to let the internal Romanian affairs beyond, 'cause I'm sick all day to hear on TV and Media about politics and rulers from the top of our country. Cheers and have a nice day!

= -Perfectly- agree with you both	Bogdan G. Marin [29.Apr.08 11:35]
"Perfection as illusion" I agree 100%. Humans are not perfect, and they can never be. However, I have to add: "Drastic reduction of taxes and abolishing special taxes of chosen products will result into a wave of consuming those certain products, and then by doing so, the production will increase as well as the state economy." In addition, after doing so, after the economy will rise and as well, people will be "free" to buy (wage slavery "reduced") you will raise again the taxes and add special taxes, then in another year again reduction and abolition. (Doing this when you need - depending on the situation) Yes! Marius, this site is "more about literature (poetry, prose, essay, etc.)" - though... it “is” and not “more”, it just “is”. Though saying “essay” this means any type of essay, you are not forced not to write a political essay. Moreover, yes, I do not force you do read politics. Moreover, yes again! On TV, all kinds of people come and yell! Thank you, I will not post, as you said though my political thoughts on agonia. (BTW: Mr. Kopperud, what is your yahoo address maybe we can talk more when you have time and send you some more fragments. What seems to utopian cross out and add something else. Anyway in this book I will add a moral philosophy as well and a theory, an idea that “forces” to not engage in war, to not attack freedom, to not give a martial law, and so on. A political philosophy that is like water)

= read again what I said and do not invoke something else...	Marius Surleac [29.Apr.08 11:42]
Bogdan, if you'll read again the comment I've posted on your text you'll see that I did not ask you such a thing like "do not publish any political texts", what I said is that MY ONLY OPINION, that I PREFER NOT TO DISCUSS ABOUT POLITICS. PAY ATTENTION TO THE WORDS AND SPEAK CARREFULLY WITHOUT MAKING DIFFERENT PRESUMPTIONS.

= ?	dan marius [29.Apr.08 11:58]
and you would like to lead us because you love us ? or because you love power ? is it "humanism" or vanity ?

= Sorry/Somewhat funny	Bogdan G. Marin [29.Apr.08 16:50]
Dan Marius - - no, I hope you know who Bakunin was as well as Proudhon, well I know that power can corrupt, so I emphasize on love and on knowledge. I am a citizen, I am a human and I know how hard it is for a person with low income and even medium income (though I am only 18 years old), anyway... no I do not love power and it is not vanity. It is somewhat funny even that you thought of this because what I am trying to do is create a political philosophy that cannot lead to the love for power but to the love for knowledge (politician philosophers – as Plato thought)! I do not think philosoher, and I know that philosophers must not in any way love power! - I am sorry Marius, yes you are right, but when you said: "I PREFER NOT TO DISCUSS ABOUT POLITICS" it sounded like that, I did not force you do discuss about this thought... sorry again though. Thank you.

= And	Bogdan G. Marin [29.Apr.08 16:51]
I will not lead any; I will just write the book. Though I hate those who are in politics and then write that our country is in a worse state! So do they not love money, power? Money is Power. Just sit and yell? Even so, I do not love money and I do not want to become rich - even though it sounds weird, I do not. My family and the people whom I have talked to said that money is everything, but I do not say that, I say that knowledge and love is everything! To be good to the people, “Love thy neighbor as thy self” – Though I do not believe in God, I accept this.

= And, last thing	Bogdan G. Marin [29.Apr.08 16:52]
I want Romania to become one of the many important countries of Europe, maybe even more important then France or Italy. I want my country, our country to be educated, hundreds of libraries, a special building where philosophers will meet – similar to Ancient Rome, conservatories, art, a new architecture - where is a possible, environmental law, and so on!